i have opened another new topic to help DT to sort his things out. this topic is for The Merlion by Sa'at, Telephone Conversation and other poems etc. feel free to ask any questions.
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The Merlion and other poems
Flame^Ice Warrior- Posts : 328
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Flame^Ice Warrior- Posts : 328
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okay im back. Mr Tan, i have two questions.
1) Why does the friend of the persona kept wishing the merlion to have paws?
2) What does it mean by the merlion 'to abandon the seaweed-haunted depths for land?'
1) Why does the friend of the persona kept wishing the merlion to have paws?
2) What does it mean by the merlion 'to abandon the seaweed-haunted depths for land?'
stormcharger- Admin
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@2
the merlion escaping its roots to come to land. the persona fren get out of singapore to go somewhere foreign.
the merlion escaping its roots to come to land. the persona fren get out of singapore to go somewhere foreign.
DT- Posts : 56
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the desire to see paws on the merlion is perhaps a frivolous demand - exemplifying the overly critical, generally dissatisfied attitude that some Singaporeans of the new generation have towards Singapore.
Peng Wai's answer seems ok for part 2 (watch the language though - quite ungrammatical). offer any other alternative?
Peng Wai's answer seems ok for part 2 (watch the language though - quite ungrammatical). offer any other alternative?
Fishball- Posts : 7
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the first column of the poem is about the persona's fren talkin bout how he finds the merlion 'grotesque', 'post-Chernobyl nightmare" and others.Can I conclude dat those r the poet's impression about the Merlion? I mean, he might have thought like that or else he can't heve thought about describing the Merlion like that.And,why is the Merlion potrayed as weak and lack confidence unlike the Merlion by Thumboo which was majestic and powerful?
Extra: What's the difference between 'thy' and 'thee'?
Extra: What's the difference between 'thy' and 'thee'?
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He is not really trying to say that the merlion is weak, but instead, not sure about its identity.
The contrast between the two poems are also about the different generations they live in. People in Singapore in the 1960s feel lucky to be living in Singapore after all the riots and feel lucky. Those in the 1990s take things for granted and feel that the grass is greener on the other side?
I am not sure, but this is what i feel..
and thy and thou have the same meaning.
The contrast between the two poems are also about the different generations they live in. People in Singapore in the 1960s feel lucky to be living in Singapore after all the riots and feel lucky. Those in the 1990s take things for granted and feel that the grass is greener on the other side?
I am not sure, but this is what i feel..
and thy and thou have the same meaning.
DT- Posts : 56
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who is fishball? next time pls identify urself.
you can't really say its what the POET feels, because u can never be sure. this is known as the 'intentional fallacy' - google if you're interested. always say that it is what the persona or the persona's friend feels. this is what the poem is about - does not necessarily have to do with what the poet is trying to say. and when u are talking about themes, you should always try to include modals - perhaps the author is trying to say this, or i think that maybe the author is trying to say this. don't be absolute.
valerie - good job with the identity thing.
thee - you (object) - I love thee
thou - you (subject) - thou art (are) beautiful
thy - your (I love thy pencil box)
you can't really say its what the POET feels, because u can never be sure. this is known as the 'intentional fallacy' - google if you're interested. always say that it is what the persona or the persona's friend feels. this is what the poem is about - does not necessarily have to do with what the poet is trying to say. and when u are talking about themes, you should always try to include modals - perhaps the author is trying to say this, or i think that maybe the author is trying to say this. don't be absolute.
valerie - good job with the identity thing.
thee - you (object) - I love thee
thou - you (subject) - thou art (are) beautiful
thy - your (I love thy pencil box)
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Sorry, sorry, sorry. I forget to say who i am. Err, the girl who sits beside Lin Rui? 
Fishball- Posts : 7
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I dont get what Valerie says. What does being ugly or mutaed have to do with unsure about identity? 
DT- Posts : 56
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think about how people who have little pride in the things they own constantly go about self-bashing. for example, your family is a big part of who u are. but as teenagers, when ure searching for your own identity, sometimes u go about being very critical of your own parents. Its the same, how singaporeans who are inevitably singaporeans and can never really escape from that identity, are generally dissatisfied and so go on a nation-bashing spree, describing everything singaporean as ugly. without any objective basis for their criticisms.
hope this helps.
hope this helps.
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Thx, Mr.DT Helps super lot
JingYi- Posts : 43
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Hello there! I have a question about our Literature exam, the poetry part, what kind of questions are they gonna ask, for example? Do they ask about the main thing of the whole poem like the themes, or do they ask based on a few Stanzas? For example,in THE MERLION, would they ask questions like --
" what is this poem trying to say about Singaporeans?"
OR
" What does the personna mean by ..."
" what is this poem trying to say about Singaporeans?"
OR
" What does the personna mean by ..."
DT- Posts : 56
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jing yi, why didn't u ask mdm abey yest!!! I really don't know much about the exam. But I do know that questions will be more general - more to do with themes and subject matter. Answers, however, can be very specific - for instance, you could use specific examples or identify literary devices as part of your answer.
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Mr Tan why don't you ask mdm abey and tell us the ans!!! :O
JYing- Posts : 7
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Hey Mr Tan
I still don't quite understand what's the meaning of 'subject matter'. Mind giving examples for this poem?
JingYing here.
I still don't quite understand what's the meaning of 'subject matter'. Mind giving examples for this poem?
JingYing here.
DT- Posts : 56
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subject matter could be:
national identity
national pride
westernisation
loss of cultural identity
90s singapore
Singapore
Singaporeans
national symbols
and many more. for theme, try to think about what Sa'at is trying to say regarding these. for instance, is he trying to say that the younger generation of singaporeans are becoming increasingly westernised and hence losing a sense of their cultural identity? Up to u to decide and look for evidence to support your answer!
national identity
national pride
westernisation
loss of cultural identity
90s singapore
Singapore
Singaporeans
national symbols
and many more. for theme, try to think about what Sa'at is trying to say regarding these. for instance, is he trying to say that the younger generation of singaporeans are becoming increasingly westernised and hence losing a sense of their cultural identity? Up to u to decide and look for evidence to support your answer!
JYing- Posts : 7
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Oh ok thanks. But when you said that the subject matter of this poem is "This poem is about national identity," why is it not "This poem is about LOSING national identity." Anyway, both themes and subjct matters are to be phrased in a sentence? As well as, we must come up with not only 1 subject matter (just like themes)?
Just a question about EL PP1. The questions of the composition will likely not state whether the question is a narrative, descriptive or arguementative etc, but up to us to interpret? For example, the title "Fire", we can interpret it as descriptive and describe how the fire affects our live (generally), or we can interpret it as a narrative and write about a story of a fire breaking out?
Just a question about EL PP1. The questions of the composition will likely not state whether the question is a narrative, descriptive or arguementative etc, but up to us to interpret? For example, the title "Fire", we can interpret it as descriptive and describe how the fire affects our live (generally), or we can interpret it as a narrative and write about a story of a fire breaking out?
DT- Posts : 56
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Re EL PP1: yes.
ok subject matter/ideas are practically unlimited. you could potentially identify an endless stream of them from a poem. they are not phrased as a sentence. for example, if you say, this poem is about love or this poem is about national identity, all you are saying is something about the subject matter. if you say, "I think the poet may be trying to argue that the younger generation of singaporeans are losing their national identity" - now that is a theme - based on evidence from the poem, u deduce what kind of "message" the poet is trying to send out. the theme could well be that 'our national identity is GETTING STRONGER'. totally possible, as long as u justify with evidence from the text.
ok subject matter/ideas are practically unlimited. you could potentially identify an endless stream of them from a poem. they are not phrased as a sentence. for example, if you say, this poem is about love or this poem is about national identity, all you are saying is something about the subject matter. if you say, "I think the poet may be trying to argue that the younger generation of singaporeans are losing their national identity" - now that is a theme - based on evidence from the poem, u deduce what kind of "message" the poet is trying to send out. the theme could well be that 'our national identity is GETTING STRONGER'. totally possible, as long as u justify with evidence from the text.
JYing- Posts : 7
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ohoh.
So, e.g.
Subject matter of "the melion" is about national identity.
Theme is "The younger generation of SGreansare LOSING their national identity." <<just like additional information of subj matter(elaboration?).
Just like:
Subject matter of "Ulysses" is about a young nation struggling to forge a sense of belonging.
Theme is "SG (the young nation stated in the SM) is a country struggling for multi-culture, multi-racial and unity (the sense of belonging)"
A theme is being reduced from the subject matter. (?)
So, e.g.
Subject matter of "the melion" is about national identity.
Theme is "The younger generation of SGreansare LOSING their national identity." <<just like additional information of subj matter(elaboration?).
Just like:
Subject matter of "Ulysses" is about a young nation struggling to forge a sense of belonging.
Theme is "SG (the young nation stated in the SM) is a country struggling for multi-culture, multi-racial and unity (the sense of belonging)"
A theme is being reduced from the subject matter. (?)
DT- Posts : 56
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yes! but not 'reduced' haha. more like 'expanded'. for ulysses, ur subject matter sounds like the theme.
nazeha- Posts : 1
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Hey Mr Tan,
>What is the meaning of sibling polarity?
>"how its sister's lips are sealed...",what or who does the sister refers to?
>What is the meaning of sibling polarity?
>"how its sister's lips are sealed...",what or who does the sister refers to?
DT- Posts : 56
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naz,
i mentioned this in class - the sister of the sphinx is the merlion, and its lips are sealed, supposedly portraying a more self-assured character, in contrast to the merlion, whose open mouth suggests self-doubt.
sibling polarity - polarity means opposites. u can infer this from ur physics - north and south magnetic poles. so the sphinx and merlion, although they are siblings, are polar opposites.
i mentioned this in class - the sister of the sphinx is the merlion, and its lips are sealed, supposedly portraying a more self-assured character, in contrast to the merlion, whose open mouth suggests self-doubt.
sibling polarity - polarity means opposites. u can infer this from ur physics - north and south magnetic poles. so the sphinx and merlion, although they are siblings, are polar opposites.
senbazuru~- Posts : 284
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Like they are worlds apart,nothing alike in them^^
Jessica- Posts : 2
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Hello, I've some doubts/ questions:
1. Why is the Merlion ashamed when it was the one who had left the sea to come to land? Does it mean that the Merlion was forced to doing so? Also, does "what a bold front" suggests that despite being unsure of its true identity, the Merlion has put up with all the snares and uncertainity with a strong and powerful look?
2. Is the "ceaseless torrent of denial" suggesting that the Merlion be confused and doubting its origins, just like some Singaporeans are ourselves?
3. "Well, yes, but I still do wish it has paws." Is the author trying to evoke the sense that it could be great if Singaporeans have one common identity/ancestry, like most countries have theirs? Is the persona's friend trying to hint that he hopes the Merlion is of a single breed, and not of mix(like how Singaporeans are nowadays, with diverse cultures etc.)?
Sorry, long questions...
1. Why is the Merlion ashamed when it was the one who had left the sea to come to land? Does it mean that the Merlion was forced to doing so? Also, does "what a bold front" suggests that despite being unsure of its true identity, the Merlion has put up with all the snares and uncertainity with a strong and powerful look?
2. Is the "ceaseless torrent of denial" suggesting that the Merlion be confused and doubting its origins, just like some Singaporeans are ourselves?
3. "Well, yes, but I still do wish it has paws." Is the author trying to evoke the sense that it could be great if Singaporeans have one common identity/ancestry, like most countries have theirs? Is the persona's friend trying to hint that he hopes the Merlion is of a single breed, and not of mix(like how Singaporeans are nowadays, with diverse cultures etc.)?
Sorry, long questions...
Jessica- Posts : 2
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Mr. Tan,
Regarding the question on subject matter, is it the same as the main ideas of the poem, for eg., what it is based on? Also, Jing Ying wrote about the "Subject matter of "Ulysses" is about a young nation struggling to forge a sense of belonging." Can we just mention that it is simply a sense of belonging/ national identity?
Regarding the question on subject matter, is it the same as the main ideas of the poem, for eg., what it is based on? Also, Jing Ying wrote about the "Subject matter of "Ulysses" is about a young nation struggling to forge a sense of belonging." Can we just mention that it is simply a sense of belonging/ national identity?
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